Multimedia
Aug 27, 04:03 PM
I really hope that they keep the option for a matte screen open when the upgraded MacBook Pros finally arrive.
I have been waiting a while now to upgrade to a MacBook Pro but have held off primarily as i would like to see if the enclosure gets a few nips and tucks a la Macbook!
The switchable HD bay would be awesome, and the magnetic latch and updated keyboard also would be nice but PLEASE DO NOT make glossy screen a standard on Pro notebooks!
I have a few friends who own PC laptops with glossy screens and all of them have keyboards imprinted on their screens! I cannot say from experience if this happens with the MacBooks but i'd rather not risk it....Closing A Laptop Without The Foam Barrier it ships with Or A Cloth Barrier Is Poor Maintenance. I would NEVER close my laptop without a barrier between the keyboard and the screen. I don't understand those who do. :rolleyes:
I still have the foam barrier and slipcase that came with my 3 year old PowerBook and always use them in addition to two iKlear (http://iKlear.com) cloth barriers on the keyboard as well as on the trackpad.
I have been waiting a while now to upgrade to a MacBook Pro but have held off primarily as i would like to see if the enclosure gets a few nips and tucks a la Macbook!
The switchable HD bay would be awesome, and the magnetic latch and updated keyboard also would be nice but PLEASE DO NOT make glossy screen a standard on Pro notebooks!
I have a few friends who own PC laptops with glossy screens and all of them have keyboards imprinted on their screens! I cannot say from experience if this happens with the MacBooks but i'd rather not risk it....Closing A Laptop Without The Foam Barrier it ships with Or A Cloth Barrier Is Poor Maintenance. I would NEVER close my laptop without a barrier between the keyboard and the screen. I don't understand those who do. :rolleyes:
I still have the foam barrier and slipcase that came with my 3 year old PowerBook and always use them in addition to two iKlear (http://iKlear.com) cloth barriers on the keyboard as well as on the trackpad.
parapup
Mar 31, 04:03 PM
Google/Android can't win in Gruber and his follower's minds. If they control to reduce UI variations - it's not OPEN anymore. If they don't control then there are complaints about carrier crapware. Either way Gruber and co. exist to move the goal posts to suit their cult. iOS has favorable numbers - numbers FTW!! Oh wait that's no longer true - numbers hardly matter!! Android has UI variances because of lack of Google control - BAAAD stuff! Google is putting control in place to promote more uniformity - GAAAWWD AWFUL BAIT and SWITCH!!
So nothing to see here, move along.
So nothing to see here, move along.
wmmk
Jul 14, 06:07 PM
the question still remains--will the powermacs be able to use standard, off the shelf, pc video cards?
i know that you couldn't do so in the power architecture due to the bios irregularities. now that they're using efi, does this still mean we have to buy mac based cards? because that's really the question nobody seems to ask and nobody seems to have an answer for.
what this new mac workstation will mean is the chance to upgrade your macs based on commodity parts. no more mac tax for hardware. i remember when the radeon 9700 was king, the price was around $299 for pc version and $399 for mac version.
think about this, the ability to upgrade processor, video card, and sound card without having to pay the apple tax.
that's what it really comes down to. the speculative "good" version of the mac pro has a so-so video card, but it's not really worth the $600 more just to get a 1800, i'd rather just get the 1600 and upgrade on my own.
oh, btw, i did some of my own investigations and found this site:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/7_series_techspecs.html
which may mean that the standard cards are compatible with mac os x now.
i'v actually heard that with a normal PC, you can make almost any NVIDIA card compatible with mac, but it takes a bit of geekery and hackery.
i know that you couldn't do so in the power architecture due to the bios irregularities. now that they're using efi, does this still mean we have to buy mac based cards? because that's really the question nobody seems to ask and nobody seems to have an answer for.
what this new mac workstation will mean is the chance to upgrade your macs based on commodity parts. no more mac tax for hardware. i remember when the radeon 9700 was king, the price was around $299 for pc version and $399 for mac version.
think about this, the ability to upgrade processor, video card, and sound card without having to pay the apple tax.
that's what it really comes down to. the speculative "good" version of the mac pro has a so-so video card, but it's not really worth the $600 more just to get a 1800, i'd rather just get the 1600 and upgrade on my own.
oh, btw, i did some of my own investigations and found this site:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/7_series_techspecs.html
which may mean that the standard cards are compatible with mac os x now.
i'v actually heard that with a normal PC, you can make almost any NVIDIA card compatible with mac, but it takes a bit of geekery and hackery.
Multimedia
Aug 20, 01:08 AM
That's okay. No worries. I just get a little defensive when I spend $5000 on a new system, and then see you posting about how it'll be better with Clovertown. But that's my problem I guess. :rolleyes:
Anyway, it's all cool.Thank you. I didn't mean to make you feel bad. This Clovertown thing is not new news. Some of us have known it would follow the first Mac Pro fairly soon thereafter since last Winter and have been discussing it ever since then. So I didn't think bringing it up here would upset new buyers. It's definitely going to cost a lot more if that helps.Yeah... me too! LOL!! :D
As for Toast and Handbrake performance... well that's all well and cool, but I have little use for those apps on such extreme level. I can't think of an instance where I would run Toast more than once or twice a week. Maybe I should get netflix and build a library of illegal movies?? Nah... I will be using my Macpro for creative work instead. FCP, Motion, Shake, Lightwave, Maya etc... I realize that comparisions with Handbrake and Toast are being made just to show how the cores are utilized, but frankly, I don't give a damn about those apps. They show me nothing. Now if you get into comparing heavy duty Professional apps that take full advantage of all cores at native speeds, then I'm excited. For example, Newtek Lightwave has been announced as UB "very soon". Lightwave is a fully multicore application that should test the strength of the Macpro when it comes to rendering. I'd love to see those benchmarks compared to G5!
Newtek Press Release (http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/08-01-06f.html)Thanks. I know what you mean. :)
Just a brief clarification on how I use Toast. Has nothing to do with burning DVDs. I use it to encode DVD Images of Digital Broadcast Television Shows recorded with EyeTV2 from off air SD and HD transmissions for personal archival purposes. Images not DVDs. Why? Because I beleive Handbrake is the most superior mp4 encoder available and it needs DVDs or DVD Images to rip from. Toast has what I think is among the best DVD Image transcoders. So I crank up the Toast settings to Maximum Quality and transcode the Native Digital Off Air Broadcast Recordings with Toast to DVD Images that Handbrake can then use to make pristine mp4 files that are a fraction the size of the originals. Once ripped to mp4s, the originals can be deleted as well as the Toast Images. What was originally a 4.4 GB recording winds up a 351 MB mp4 file - not H.264 btw for other reasons. 12 of those mp4 files fit on the same DVD that even one of the original recordings won't even fit on. And they look very similar to the originals. A little soft, but very fine from a fraction of the starting size. And from an iPod on an analog TV they look as good as commercial DVDs.
The same technique can be used to make pristine iPod compatible web-size versions of any of your FCP creations. So it may be relevant to you when you look at that post post-production application. :)
Anyway I'm glad you guys aren't too angry with me cause this time forward is really going to be a power explosion on all personal computers and we all know here that OS X is the only way to fly with the new hardware. Once we get Leopard on board and the remainder of all the pro aplications go UB and MultiCore Optimized, 2007 forward are going to be amazing times for creativity with little to no waiting for any processes to get done. :) Whoopie!
Anyway, it's all cool.Thank you. I didn't mean to make you feel bad. This Clovertown thing is not new news. Some of us have known it would follow the first Mac Pro fairly soon thereafter since last Winter and have been discussing it ever since then. So I didn't think bringing it up here would upset new buyers. It's definitely going to cost a lot more if that helps.Yeah... me too! LOL!! :D
As for Toast and Handbrake performance... well that's all well and cool, but I have little use for those apps on such extreme level. I can't think of an instance where I would run Toast more than once or twice a week. Maybe I should get netflix and build a library of illegal movies?? Nah... I will be using my Macpro for creative work instead. FCP, Motion, Shake, Lightwave, Maya etc... I realize that comparisions with Handbrake and Toast are being made just to show how the cores are utilized, but frankly, I don't give a damn about those apps. They show me nothing. Now if you get into comparing heavy duty Professional apps that take full advantage of all cores at native speeds, then I'm excited. For example, Newtek Lightwave has been announced as UB "very soon". Lightwave is a fully multicore application that should test the strength of the Macpro when it comes to rendering. I'd love to see those benchmarks compared to G5!
Newtek Press Release (http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/08-01-06f.html)Thanks. I know what you mean. :)
Just a brief clarification on how I use Toast. Has nothing to do with burning DVDs. I use it to encode DVD Images of Digital Broadcast Television Shows recorded with EyeTV2 from off air SD and HD transmissions for personal archival purposes. Images not DVDs. Why? Because I beleive Handbrake is the most superior mp4 encoder available and it needs DVDs or DVD Images to rip from. Toast has what I think is among the best DVD Image transcoders. So I crank up the Toast settings to Maximum Quality and transcode the Native Digital Off Air Broadcast Recordings with Toast to DVD Images that Handbrake can then use to make pristine mp4 files that are a fraction the size of the originals. Once ripped to mp4s, the originals can be deleted as well as the Toast Images. What was originally a 4.4 GB recording winds up a 351 MB mp4 file - not H.264 btw for other reasons. 12 of those mp4 files fit on the same DVD that even one of the original recordings won't even fit on. And they look very similar to the originals. A little soft, but very fine from a fraction of the starting size. And from an iPod on an analog TV they look as good as commercial DVDs.
The same technique can be used to make pristine iPod compatible web-size versions of any of your FCP creations. So it may be relevant to you when you look at that post post-production application. :)
Anyway I'm glad you guys aren't too angry with me cause this time forward is really going to be a power explosion on all personal computers and we all know here that OS X is the only way to fly with the new hardware. Once we get Leopard on board and the remainder of all the pro aplications go UB and MultiCore Optimized, 2007 forward are going to be amazing times for creativity with little to no waiting for any processes to get done. :) Whoopie!
guffman
Aug 6, 01:43 PM
As Apple applied for the trademark, it will not be approved.
It is up to Apple how they want to proceed. A fight that can't win, no matter how much money they have.
Mac Pro has been the premier Mac dealer in the same county as Apple since 1988. Out of all the names for this new line of computers, why choose one that they know they cannot have.
We are already getting countless support calls for the macbook pro. It seems they assume we made them When we can't help them, they seem to get very upset.
Mac Pro is in a position to file for a court order not to release any computer that bears our name.
So get ready WWDC, we will be watching.
Mike Ajlouny
President
MAC-PRO.com
Um, http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=odbjam.2.2
It is up to Apple how they want to proceed. A fight that can't win, no matter how much money they have.
Mac Pro has been the premier Mac dealer in the same county as Apple since 1988. Out of all the names for this new line of computers, why choose one that they know they cannot have.
We are already getting countless support calls for the macbook pro. It seems they assume we made them When we can't help them, they seem to get very upset.
Mac Pro is in a position to file for a court order not to release any computer that bears our name.
So get ready WWDC, we will be watching.
Mike Ajlouny
President
MAC-PRO.com
Um, http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=odbjam.2.2
tripleanica
Nov 29, 01:29 PM
real music lovers buy their music in order the support great artists. i don't buy crap from the people at universal. nor do i expect to give them money when i buy an ipod.
jeanlain
Apr 5, 05:16 PM
I'm not trolling, this is an honest question. But isn't a Final Cut pretty much worthless for commercial use without a way to put the results on Blu-Ray?
Final Cut does a bit more than disc authoring.
Final Cut does a bit more than disc authoring.
Aztechian
Jul 27, 09:52 AM
Yes. I believe people who have gotten their hands on Core 2 Duo beta chips have put them in their mini's with no difference (except a massive speed boost)
Weren't the notebook CPU's soldered to the boards though?
^^^beat me to it ;-)
Weren't the notebook CPU's soldered to the boards though?
^^^beat me to it ;-)
Anonymous Freak
Jul 15, 02:16 PM
Can anyone tell me the purpose of dual drive slots nowadays? I can see the use for them (and had computers with) when they were limited to one function, i.e. DVD-ROM for one and a CD-RW for the other but now that everything can happen in one drive with speed not being an issue, is it really nececcary to have two?
Early Blu-Ray burners can't read or write CDs, and are slow at DVDs. Maybe we'll see a Blu-Ray burner and a high-speed DVD�R(W)/CD-R(W).
Early Blu-Ray burners can't read or write CDs, and are slow at DVDs. Maybe we'll see a Blu-Ray burner and a high-speed DVD�R(W)/CD-R(W).
adamfilip
Jul 14, 02:42 PM
more importantly then dual optical is being able to support 4 hard drives then!
X2468
Mar 26, 02:10 PM
Ignoring all else what I want is the ability to run my IOS applications on Mac OS. :)
You may get your wish soon. It appears that Lion will be Step 1 in the blending of the two OS's. A bridge. Step 2 may very well be the one & only Apple OS - based on iOS.
There's too much money in the volume sales of iPhones & iPads for Apple to focus on anything else. Other than the lip service they give their long standing computer users, the current obsession at Apple is sheer profits & volume sales of phones & pads for bragging rights and the money that goes with it.
The handwriting's been on the wall for years, ever since the company was renamed, and that fact has been underlined by the official words of Steve Jobs when he said "Post PC ERA". He was not talking about a few years from now, but mere months for Apple.
This represents the zenith of Jobs efforts. Perhaps the last item on his bucket list. To morph Apple into a huge, successful consumer electronics & entertainment business, is the goal & it's nearly complete. It wouldn't surprise me if the book is too.
You may get your wish soon. It appears that Lion will be Step 1 in the blending of the two OS's. A bridge. Step 2 may very well be the one & only Apple OS - based on iOS.
There's too much money in the volume sales of iPhones & iPads for Apple to focus on anything else. Other than the lip service they give their long standing computer users, the current obsession at Apple is sheer profits & volume sales of phones & pads for bragging rights and the money that goes with it.
The handwriting's been on the wall for years, ever since the company was renamed, and that fact has been underlined by the official words of Steve Jobs when he said "Post PC ERA". He was not talking about a few years from now, but mere months for Apple.
This represents the zenith of Jobs efforts. Perhaps the last item on his bucket list. To morph Apple into a huge, successful consumer electronics & entertainment business, is the goal & it's nearly complete. It wouldn't surprise me if the book is too.
Le Big Mac
Apr 27, 08:27 AM
And here I thought that data wasn't sent to Apple? At least they encrypted it so that you can't tell what actually is sent.
How much is it costing me to send the data to apple so they can crowdsource locations for everyone? I doubt AT&T isn't counting this towards data use.
How much is it costing me to send the data to apple so they can crowdsource locations for everyone? I doubt AT&T isn't counting this towards data use.
aswitcher
Aug 27, 04:40 AM
This is great news. Looking forward to a revamp of half the Apple line over the next month or so.
Krevnik
Apr 27, 09:19 AM
Are you somehow trying to imply that because the credit card company knows so much about you that it is OK to keep that information unencrypted on your phone and backup on your computer?
All people are asking for is that personal information is kept encrypted and secured. No more. No less.
Apple provides the option of encrypting your backups. I suggest that anyone concerned about the safety of their personal information use this feature.
Can you trust anyone to completely cover their bases correctly on this issue? Their "meh" data might be your "personal" data. The only way to be certain that the backups are encrypted is to encrypt the whole backup. Doesn't lengthen the time it takes much either, and you get to set the password to use/access the backup.
Yes, Apple made a bone-head move here. But there's a lot more personal information floating in the backups. SMS message history, 3rd party app data, etc. Not all of it is encrypted, and some of it you probably want encrypted.
All people are asking for is that personal information is kept encrypted and secured. No more. No less.
Apple provides the option of encrypting your backups. I suggest that anyone concerned about the safety of their personal information use this feature.
Can you trust anyone to completely cover their bases correctly on this issue? Their "meh" data might be your "personal" data. The only way to be certain that the backups are encrypted is to encrypt the whole backup. Doesn't lengthen the time it takes much either, and you get to set the password to use/access the backup.
Yes, Apple made a bone-head move here. But there's a lot more personal information floating in the backups. SMS message history, 3rd party app data, etc. Not all of it is encrypted, and some of it you probably want encrypted.
Kane.Elson
Jul 29, 03:42 AM
Love this news. Just what I was expecting and one of the main reasons to have waited for Core 2 Duo mobile Macs. :)
Ahh the rewards of waiting.
The performance increase and the 64-bit sounded good but this just makes me grin about the fact that I waited. I can never get enough battery life.
Ahh the rewards of waiting.
The performance increase and the 64-bit sounded good but this just makes me grin about the fact that I waited. I can never get enough battery life.
blackpond
Apr 11, 04:37 PM
This is bunk. Apple will not miss Christmas. Period, end of discussion.
If the 5 launches a short while before Christmas, the supply constraints would be 10x worse than they are for the iPad right now.
The only thing this rumor proves is that bloggers, speculators, and analysts are getting irritated with the lack of solid info compared to this time last year.
Apple can create Christmas any day of the year.
If the 5 launches a short while before Christmas, the supply constraints would be 10x worse than they are for the iPad right now.
The only thing this rumor proves is that bloggers, speculators, and analysts are getting irritated with the lack of solid info compared to this time last year.
Apple can create Christmas any day of the year.
bibbz
Jun 14, 07:21 PM
I called all 3 corporate stores in my county and none of the managers knew about the conference call and none of them know how they're going to handle pre-orders tomorrow morning. They ASSUME it will be the way they pre-sold Evo phones which was with a $50 deposit. But they don't know anything about PIN numbers or anything else the East Texas administration or national is telling you. One manager reported there's a pre-opening conference call scheduled for California stores tomorrow morning. The other 2 didn't even report that to me. But just called my closest store and the manager says the 8:30 conference call tomorrow morning is a weekly event and nothing special for the pre-order instructions. :confused:
My district had our 8:30 conf call for tomorrow at 5pm today. There was the normal RS stuff, then all about the iphone launch. Some stores may not get the info til tomorrow bc it was communicated so late in the afternoon.
I just got off the phone with my local RadioShack. I was told that the PIN would not guarantee you a phone on launch day, but that the chances of getting one are VERY VERY good. I know the manager very well, and trust that whoever told him said the same thing. I'm assuming the calls were done on a regional, if not district level, as opposed to company wide to give people a chance to ask questions, so it seems that most likely personal interpretations came into play, causing the original message, whatever it may have been to get screwed up.
The original call was Area specific and all dms were on it. Then my DM held a call with us immediatly after the big call. Some DM's might hold this info til tomorrow. I have no idea why.
Why on earth would Radio Shack ask anyone
to stand on line tomorrow to get a PIN just
to stand on line again opening day to get a phone
for which you are not guaranteed for?
My point exactly. We wouldn't be doing it if you weren't guaranteed a phone. See my above text, and call your store again in the am.
My district had our 8:30 conf call for tomorrow at 5pm today. There was the normal RS stuff, then all about the iphone launch. Some stores may not get the info til tomorrow bc it was communicated so late in the afternoon.
I just got off the phone with my local RadioShack. I was told that the PIN would not guarantee you a phone on launch day, but that the chances of getting one are VERY VERY good. I know the manager very well, and trust that whoever told him said the same thing. I'm assuming the calls were done on a regional, if not district level, as opposed to company wide to give people a chance to ask questions, so it seems that most likely personal interpretations came into play, causing the original message, whatever it may have been to get screwed up.
The original call was Area specific and all dms were on it. Then my DM held a call with us immediatly after the big call. Some DM's might hold this info til tomorrow. I have no idea why.
Why on earth would Radio Shack ask anyone
to stand on line tomorrow to get a PIN just
to stand on line again opening day to get a phone
for which you are not guaranteed for?
My point exactly. We wouldn't be doing it if you weren't guaranteed a phone. See my above text, and call your store again in the am.
braddouglass
Apr 6, 12:34 PM
I've always hated the MBA until this most recent update. FLASH drives are amazing. and if they can finally update the processor to i5 they will have my money! those complaining about graphics.. why are you buying 13in mac for gaming?? buy a MBP so you can see what you're doing. I want mine for general usage and music editing/writing. Sounds like a beautiful product to me. :)
samcraig
Apr 27, 10:28 AM
Don't you just love it? Apple identifies an potential issue, and does something to remedy it, and they get yelled at for doing so. If they do nothing, they get yelled at for doing nothing.
Catch 22.
Apple identified it? No. Check your history. It was brought TO Apple's attention over a year ago.
It was again brought TO Apple's attention via various reports and articles.
THEN Apple looked into the matter.
I commend Apple for taking action (now).
But let's not rewrite history, shall we?
Catch 22.
Apple identified it? No. Check your history. It was brought TO Apple's attention over a year ago.
It was again brought TO Apple's attention via various reports and articles.
THEN Apple looked into the matter.
I commend Apple for taking action (now).
But let's not rewrite history, shall we?
JMax1
Nov 28, 06:43 PM
"It would be a nice idea."
What does that mean? I have lots of nice ideas for getting money when I didn't do anything.
By this logic, shouldn't Universal also get royalties for every CD player, Cassette player, and radio sold?
Might as well cash in on the giant cash cow that is the iPod :rolleyes:
What does that mean? I have lots of nice ideas for getting money when I didn't do anything.
By this logic, shouldn't Universal also get royalties for every CD player, Cassette player, and radio sold?
Might as well cash in on the giant cash cow that is the iPod :rolleyes:
appleguy123
Feb 28, 06:58 PM
I have no problem being exclusionist to bad ideas like rape and paedophilia
That's not being exclusionist.
Rape and paedophilia are bad no matter who does them.
It would be exclusionist to say:
"Rape and pedophilia are bad for everyone except for Catholics"
Oh wait...
That's not being exclusionist.
Rape and paedophilia are bad no matter who does them.
It would be exclusionist to say:
"Rape and pedophilia are bad for everyone except for Catholics"
Oh wait...
gnasher729
Apr 19, 03:36 PM
Does anyone think that a normal person would actually confuse a Samsung Galaxy (especially with that huge "Samsung" on it) with an Apple iPhone when they're buying it?
I mean, is Apple going to claim that they're losing sales because the Galaxy is so close to the iPhone that people can't tell the difference? If so, that sure doesn't say much for the iPhone. Or it says a lot for the Galaxy.
You made up your mind and you argue accordingly. Consider this: Many people know the name "iPhone" and the way it looks, they may even know the name "Macintosh", but not the name "Apple". They might have talked to someone who used an iPhone and was very happy with it, were convinced to buy one, and go to a shop and pick up the phone that looks exactly like the one they wanted to buy. And end up with a Samsung phone when they actually wanted an iPhone.
Your second argument doesn't really make much sense. Samsung knew what the iPhone looks like, so if the Galaxy looks the same, it is because Samsung decided that it should look that way. Confusion surely goes both ways, so there would be a danger for Samsung that someone wanting to buy a Galaxy ends up buying an iPhone. Samsung had to know and accept this. So obviously Samsung is of the opinion that if people who want an iPhone buy a Galaxy by mistake, and people who want a Galaxy buy an iPhone by mistake, then Samsung will overall benefit. Doesn't seem to say much for the Galaxy, if they try to create this confusion.
I mean, is Apple going to claim that they're losing sales because the Galaxy is so close to the iPhone that people can't tell the difference? If so, that sure doesn't say much for the iPhone. Or it says a lot for the Galaxy.
You made up your mind and you argue accordingly. Consider this: Many people know the name "iPhone" and the way it looks, they may even know the name "Macintosh", but not the name "Apple". They might have talked to someone who used an iPhone and was very happy with it, were convinced to buy one, and go to a shop and pick up the phone that looks exactly like the one they wanted to buy. And end up with a Samsung phone when they actually wanted an iPhone.
Your second argument doesn't really make much sense. Samsung knew what the iPhone looks like, so if the Galaxy looks the same, it is because Samsung decided that it should look that way. Confusion surely goes both ways, so there would be a danger for Samsung that someone wanting to buy a Galaxy ends up buying an iPhone. Samsung had to know and accept this. So obviously Samsung is of the opinion that if people who want an iPhone buy a Galaxy by mistake, and people who want a Galaxy buy an iPhone by mistake, then Samsung will overall benefit. Doesn't seem to say much for the Galaxy, if they try to create this confusion.
skunk
Mar 1, 06:37 AM
No it doesn't, not when people brag about how much they sleep aroundThat is their problem, not yours.
Your link supports the idea that Greek society supported pederasty. If they have such a failing what is to say they don't have other failingsYou could say the same about the Catholic church. My link was specifically in reply to being asked for evidence - actually proof - that Plato was a homosexual. As for supporting bad stuff, the US Constitution was once quite content to support slavery and the subordination of women, and so were many of the founding fathers, both of the early church and the USA.
rape and paedophilia both involve lack of consent. Although paedophilia has to do with that the mind is attracted to pre-pubescent children in the same way that homosexuality causes attraction to the same sex. Both cases are untreatable.What absolute bollocks! Homosexuality does not need treatment, since it is not a disease.
Your link supports the idea that Greek society supported pederasty. If they have such a failing what is to say they don't have other failingsYou could say the same about the Catholic church. My link was specifically in reply to being asked for evidence - actually proof - that Plato was a homosexual. As for supporting bad stuff, the US Constitution was once quite content to support slavery and the subordination of women, and so were many of the founding fathers, both of the early church and the USA.
rape and paedophilia both involve lack of consent. Although paedophilia has to do with that the mind is attracted to pre-pubescent children in the same way that homosexuality causes attraction to the same sex. Both cases are untreatable.What absolute bollocks! Homosexuality does not need treatment, since it is not a disease.
spencers
Jun 15, 01:55 PM
To follow up to my last post, just got a call from my local Radio Shack and got my PIN.
The waiting begins!
The waiting begins!